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Brad Fitzpatrick

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vmware-alike for OS X? [Jan. 4th, 2005|10:09 am]
Brad Fitzpatrick
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Is there something like vmware for OS X?

Like, would it be possible for me to run OS X with a Debian virtual machine inside it?

Is there a Linux syscall emulation library? Perhaps a user-mode-linux binary would be able to run under OS X?

Clarification: PPC Debian inside PPC OS X... not x86 Debian.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: drmellow
2005-01-04 06:14 pm (UTC)
Like, would it be possible for me to run OS X with a Debian virtual machine inside it?

I've never used Virtual PC for Mac, but it should be possible to run Debian inside of it.
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[User Picture]From: endquote
2005-01-04 06:14 pm (UTC)
You could run Linux under Virtual PC, if you don't mind buying an MS product. I think you can get Bochs running on OS X somehow as well.
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[User Picture]From: mart
2005-01-04 06:41 pm (UTC)

Doesn't that emulate x86 rather than providing a virtual Mac? It seems a bit pointless to run Debian under emulation when there's a PowerPC port that would run without the need for slow CPU emulation.

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[User Picture]From: vanbeast
2005-01-04 06:18 pm (UTC)
VirtualPC. I think Microsoft bought them, but it's still around. I've run Windows inside it, and I've read about people running linux.
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[User Picture]From: idigital
2005-01-04 06:20 pm (UTC)
Debian works in VPC. Not fast (not even on my 1.5Ghz G4), but it works.
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[User Picture]From: j7xz49br3m93xrr
2005-01-04 06:36 pm (UTC)
Virtual PC is pretty good (though not as good as VMWare), but technically it's nothing like VMWare. VMWare does virtualization (of the same architecture as the machine it's running on), Virtual PC does emulation (of x86 architecture). So while Debian x86 would be okay in Virtual PC, YellowDog Linux wouldn't work.

There's something that is like a VMWare for PPC, but I forget its name. Alternately, there's MacOnLinux which lets you run OS X within a window from Linux PPC.
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[User Picture]From: matthew
2005-01-04 06:43 pm (UTC)
yeah, I've got Fedora Core running in a Virtual PC instance. Slow as snail snot though on my powerbook. I've seen a dual 1.25GHz G4 run it though, and it was rather snappy.
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[User Picture]From: scosol
2005-01-04 06:29 pm (UTC)
yeah what they said- virtual pc-

as for a syscall emu or lib-redirection thing, i've never seen any

virtual pc is (as you can probobly imagine) slow as shit btw :)
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[User Picture]From: mahlon
2005-01-04 06:29 pm (UTC)
Or go the open source route and use Qemu. I hear there are OSX installers.

http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/
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From: evan
2005-01-04 06:58 pm (UTC)
the reverse is possible: http://www.maconlinux.org/
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[User Picture]From: brad
2005-01-04 07:11 pm (UTC)
But who can speak to the hardware better --- OS X or Linux? :-(
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[User Picture]From: scosol
2005-01-04 08:57 pm (UTC)
oh- reading these responses i see you didnt want x86 emu, you just want to run a virtual ppc inside OSX to run PPC-debian (right?)

yes, there's something that can do that, but i cant for the life of me remember what its called-
i do remember the logo is a little squirrel or something with purple flippers, but that probably doesn't help much :P
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[User Picture]From: scosol
2005-01-04 09:11 pm (UTC)
huh nevermind- i was thinking of some past effort to port mac-on-linux to darwin hahaha

i myself was thinking about dropping linux on the PB, then running MOL on for the Entourage and corporate apps- but i eventually ended up at "why bother"
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From: divelog
2005-01-04 10:44 pm (UTC)

Linux can...

I ran MOL on my old TiBook, under debian. OSX actually runs *faster* since linux has a better ide driver. Only problem is video; don't expect to be able to use 3d apps and such. Linux is actually quite well supported on powerbooks.
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[User Picture]From: mulix
2005-01-04 07:04 pm (UTC)
VirtualPC, as others have mentioned.
- user-mode-linux doesn't have a PPC port, AFAIK.
- Xen is promising, but no PPC port (yet).

If you can run Linux or a real hypervisor and then OSX under that, your life would probably be easier.
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[User Picture]From: brad
2005-01-04 07:22 pm (UTC)
truedat. I was just thinkin'.
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From: (Anonymous)
2005-01-04 07:53 pm (UTC)

Darn Secrets

Since you're asking about a syscall emulation library, I assume you want to run a PPC Linux binary for which VirtualPC is useless.

Is this a Linux binary you don't have the source for? Or is it one you don't want to complile on Mac OS for some reason (due to lack of a particular syscall?)? I mean, the suspense on this is just killing me. Ow.

More to the point... last week CNet had an article (http://news.com.com/Next+IBM-Apple+chip+getting+high-end+feature/2100-1006_3-5499954.html?tag=nefd.top) about IBM adding a new feature to the PPC in the future to allow it to run multiple Operating Systems at the same time. From this I infer that you cannot currently do that.
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[User Picture]From: quirrc
2005-01-04 08:45 pm (UTC)
You can also make a screenshot on Linux and use it as a screensaver for Mac
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[User Picture]From: jope
2005-01-04 09:06 pm (UTC)
Sounds like OS9 pretty much runs in "Classic" mode this way, but I don't think the VM it runs inside is exposed in any useful fashion. I vaguely recall that VM was either based on or written by the author(s) of some already existing PPC solution. Sheepshaver, maybe? That's closer than VirtualPC to what (I think) you want -- PowerPC MacOS on PowerPC BeOS -- but still not quite. (but long neglected at this point)

MoL is getting really, really close: It can already run Linux as the client OS. And according to the latest release's notes, it's one step closer to running atop OSX rather than Linux. So you're halfway there. (though probably the easy half)
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[User Picture]From: krow
2005-01-04 09:56 pm (UTC)
I have Fedora and XP running on Virtual PC on my Mac.

Don't bother, its too slow on my laptop to be of any real use.
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[User Picture]From: brad
2005-01-04 10:03 pm (UTC)
Not x86 Debian. I want to run PPC Debian on my PPC OS X.... why would that be slow? vmware does x86 on x86 fast.
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[User Picture]From: fallingwater
2005-01-05 08:47 pm (UTC)
There currently isn't a way to run PPC Debian inside of OS X that I know of, though you can do it the other way around as has been mentioned. For what it's worth, VMWare does not emulate x86, it virtualises the hardware so that guest OSs think they have their own hardware, and then manages all those virtualised instances. There's no "x86 emulation layer" since you don't need one, you're running on x86 already.

For the record, MacOS X, (Even with the Mach I/O Serialisation Funnel the result of having to weld BSD onto Mach, but without which OS X wouldn't have had SMP had they been stuck using the BSD kernel), is probably better optimised for PowerPC. Most of the Linux tuning effort has gone into x86 support, which is logical since that's where the user base for Linux is mostly located.

You're probably better off chasing down what stuff you need as parts. If you know what you want checkout http://darwinports.opendarwin.org/ or http://fink.sourceforge.net/ see if they happen to be there.

Best of luck, you Linux using freak. ;p
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[User Picture]From: trysha
2005-01-05 10:29 pm (UTC)
Sadly, apple wired off the partitioning in the CPU. Running two OSes at once would be less difficult.

try pearpc:

pearpc.sourceforge.net
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[User Picture]From: petey_hates_lj
2005-01-04 10:19 pm (UTC)
I could be wrong, but I think QEMU and FreeOSZoo will satisfy your requests.


Also:
Darwine might be of interest.

I hope this answers your question--I'm not much of an expert when it comes to multi-OS system installs.

--Petey
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[User Picture]From: photosinensis
2005-01-05 07:42 pm (UTC)
Well, what about using PearPC? It should provide a satisfactory emulation of a PPC system on either x86 or PPC. Granted, it's a bit slow, but it is stable and useable.
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[User Picture]From: jamiemccarthy
2005-01-17 04:34 pm (UTC)

UML on PPC

This isn't what you're looking for, but just in case you're interested anyway: LynuxWorks offers User-Mode Linux for PowerPC G5
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