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Brad Fitzpatrick

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Joel on RSS [Oct. 16th, 2005|05:37 pm]
Brad Fitzpatrick
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I'm not sure Joel on Software gets RSS and the whole separation of style from substance:


Joel, I don't care that you like <font face="Georgia">. I'll pick my own fonts, thanks.


From: zztzed
2005-10-17 12:39 am (UTC)
That guy always seemed like kind of a self-important gasbag to me anyway.
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[User Picture]From: scarlet
2005-10-17 01:13 am (UTC)

boo on you.

:\ why was hep banned from commenting in your journal?
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[User Picture]From: brad
2005-10-17 01:17 am (UTC)

Re: boo on you.

I don't remember specifically banning her. I just ban people who reply off-topic.
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[User Picture]From: christowang
2005-10-17 01:33 am (UTC)

Re: boo on you.

Did you ban scarlet for commeting to this post off-topic?

Anyway, My guess to the original issue is that the RSS is created via CityDesk, which includes the formatting. Maybe you can submit a bug report, which will go into FogBugz, and Joel may fix his own product.
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[User Picture]From: brad
2005-10-17 01:35 am (UTC)

Re: boo on you.

I sure did.

(and usually I'm pretty lenient about banning people, but some people I know are just going to keep coming back....)
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From: andr3
2005-10-17 01:29 am (UTC)
Brad, i do believe RSS feeds are a particular case when it cames to separation of presentation and content.

If you, like myself, use floated images and other structural CSS rules to "design" your post, you would want that presentation to be stuck with the content so that when someone reads the summary on an aggregator they don't get an unstyled post, if and only if it's being generated automatically. Not including style="float: left" in the actual post, but have a script fetch those rules for you and embedding them into the rss feed.

It would all be ok if aggregators read a css file to present the summary of the posts with. Either by specifying an xml-stylesheet or by including it in the RSS format itself (in the channel element). But they don't -- to my knowledge -- so it's a pretty understandable situation where you can mingle both content and presentation if done like i mentioned above, IMHO.
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[User Picture]From: idealisms
2005-10-17 03:05 am (UTC)
Although I use css to style images in posts, I expect feed aggregators to strip out all style. Not because I dislike the integration of presentation and content, but because it's too risky to allow arbitrary css.

And really, does it make much of a difference if the image is before your text rather than having text flow around it? It's not worth caring about.
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[User Picture]From: jwz
2005-10-17 01:41 am (UTC)
"I'll pick my own fonts, thanks" applies just as well to HTML as to RSS, you know. (Insert perennial whine about how LJ styles should all be using the browser's default font always always always.)
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[User Picture]From: brad
2005-10-17 02:03 am (UTC)
(Insert perennial whine about how LJ styles should all be using the browser's default font always always always.)

Sorry, you lost that battle like 5 years ago.
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[User Picture]From: jwz
2005-10-17 02:05 am (UTC)
And you're losing it now.

Ha ha.
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From: plix
2005-10-17 03:50 am (UTC)
And who introduced the font tag in the first place?

(I realize that Netscape only recognized the size attribute when they added it and that Microsoft actually added support for the face attribute)
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[User Picture]From: mart
2005-10-17 06:24 am (UTC)

Mosaic should have had a better default font by default.

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From: jamesd
2005-10-17 08:06 am (UTC)
Silly, You should have said that the reader's preference should be used, then the reader who wants browser default could arrange that. Reader's preference is just what brad was asking for, after all.
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[User Picture]From: xaosenkosmos
2005-10-17 01:52 am (UTC)

hate tag

It might be more efficient to have an ohne-hate tag. Just sayin'...
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[User Picture]From: troworld
2005-10-17 02:00 am (UTC)
Seems like you're not the only one getting annoyed by this, since decent readers (liferea, gregarius) now either provide a way to strip all tags but x,y,z, or let you filter the feed through a script. It's annoying that you have to do this at all, of course.
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[User Picture]From: torgo_x
2005-10-17 05:31 am (UTC)

Markup (t)error

I hereby predict a grim meathook future where all RSSs contain, and must be rendered as, this bad MIDI file.

Via Flash and QuickTime and VRML files produced via Java XSLT.

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