lolololololllllll

yeah dude, i was on muni during the beginning of it and i kept getting stabbed by immigrants holding signs, im like fuck this im walking

so i get out to walk and like 10 ft behind me a fucking parade starts in my direction

I WAS FREAKING OUT OKAY

Amazing. Oakland was busy too.

I ate some great veggies I didn't grow today.

INS is working on getting rid of the immigrants, like MySQL's lead performance guy. :) His wife couldn't work in the US and it'd take him five years to get a permanent visa. UK gave him one quickly which would also let her work, and now he's moving from US West Coast to London.

I'm happy to have UK getting a competitive advantage that way. :)

Hmm.. I was sure that UK's immigration laws are much more strictly than American. It seems that I was wrong...but maybe it depends of your residence country, can it be?

Brad, BTW, and what's your personal opinion about this? Since I'm not American I have no idea, whether it is good or bad.. But in the Canada immigration laws are very loyal, and no one complains about the laws and about immigrants as well, huh?

I don't know enough of each side's arguments to have an opinion.

I know the rhetoric ("Jobs Americans don't want!" // "They're taking our jobs!") but I've seen nothing to back either side up.

I'm for opening the borders to all countries and making the whole world compete for "best place to live".

I'm for opening the borders to all countries and making the whole world compete for "best place to live".

Wow! That sounds really great! Well, actually I think no one really worries about this, but some politician (I won't say any names:) ) just earning their points on it. All the rest (except immigrants theirself) just don't care - I had an argue with several American friends of mine today, and they told me totally the same...

The problem with letting the whole world compete is that some countries can make products faster and cheaper because their labor force is treated inhumanly and they aren't so worried about killing the planet in the process.

You can always make the case that we have a choice and can buy from only worker and planet friendly companies, but the fact so many Americans shop at Walmart demonstrates most americans don't mind rolling back human rights if it will roll back prices.

Well, do you really believe that in America human rights are strictly keeped against everyone? I don't think so.. Since this, I cannot see a big difference between Communistic China (in fact, they're building normal market economy under the banner of Lenin and Mao) and the U.S. - especially from the point of view Iraq war... It looks like a double standard for me...

I find this argument pretty strong, though there are some realities that get in the way:
http://candid.livejournal.com/699014.html
I guess maybe you disagree on point #1. But I also think you wouldn't think that way if you thought about it for a bit more than the casual LJ response.

That was a very interesting post.

candid is a pretty interesting, if argumentative, fellow. He's also a well-educated economist, so his arguments are often persuasive even though I sometimes/often disagree, which helps me challenge my assumptions.

yeah- another good point-

for me, it's a larger issue- not just "illegal immigration" but "immigration" in general-

i see an immigrant as someone who left their homeland to come here, to take advantage of the opportunities, and to assimilate in to the culture that makes those opportunities available. hey great- the more the merrier.

but someone who comes here and imposes their own culture and language is a colonist, not an immigrant.

these protests are a very thinly veiled assemblage of the MECha/La Raza/aztlan types of groups, whose stated interest is the recapturing of CA, TX, AZ etc- from everyone that is living there right now-

there is no rhetoric- there is no veiled intention- this is actually the stated goal of these groups= reconquest by migration.
why they are not treated as treasonous enimies of the state is beyond me...

here ya go- in their own words: http://anon.scosol.speedera.net/anon.scosol/aztlan_high.wmv

Okay, yeah, no.

The groups that preach about aztlan/la raza are only a very small portion of the people at these events, on the order of a fraction of a percent. This is obvious if you actually, you know, go to these rallies or, you know, talk to these people.

Yes there are people who support that cause. There are also white supremacists roaming the country. Neither of these very small, largely irrelevant subgroups is representative of the larger groups (mexican immigrants and whitey, respectively).

To say that "these protests are a very thinly veiled assemblage" of these supporters is absurd, and shows that you know nothing about these people or these protests except what you've read at vdare/freerepublic/etc.

And even if we assume you're right, which you truly aren't, what's so bad about their goal? Have you ever heard of manifest destiny? You do realize, of course, that your ancestors -- I'm assuming they've been here more than 150 years -- and their cohorts conquered texas, thus sparking the Mexican American War and landing the US most of the southwest.

Right? You realize that, right?

I'm a white dude. My ancestors arrived in North America (at Plymouth Colony) in 1623.

80% of my neighbors are Mexican. Their ancestors arrived in North America, uh, thousands of years ago.

Who's conquering by migration, again?

the reconquistas were a very small part of the protests i've attended in los angeles. to say that's what it is all about is like calling the republican national convention a klan rally.

one thing that was really remarkable about the march on monday (and indeed, i remarked upon it to people i was marching with) was how the professional protesters from the fringe groups were so totally overwhelmed by regular folks.

and the statistics on the adoption rate of english as the primary language by recent immigrants from latin america are consistent with previous waves of immigration.

There's a spectrum. Some people are afraid of overloading American culture (whatever's left of it!) and point out that these people are not becoming "Americans." The most common flag waved at these immigrant events seems to be the Mexican flag, and some people thing America is something good, and those who wish to immigrate should wish to become Americans which doesn't mean giving up all your traditions, but rather means subordinating your traditions to American traditions.

Other people don't care how many immigrants come in, but just want them to be legal. The major problem is the sheer quantity of illegal immigrants and the perseption that we are rewarding people for breaking our laws by giving them visas.

Still other people are concerned about jobs, that the illegal immigrants have absolutely no bargaining power (after all, they are here illegally), and so they will work for a much lower wage and fill up the economy thus preventing those who have "high standards" from getting jobs.

Still others see the problem of people immigrating but not learning English and living in communities of all their own people as an added problem in an already complicated nation which they don't want to deal with.

Some people have a mixture of these motivations.

On the other side there are cries of human dignity, and that this nation was founded on immigrants ((yes, but legal immigrants!)). I personally don't know where I stand, but with all my great-grandparents did to get to this country, and with all they gave up with regard to their polish culture and heritage, it sorta pisses me off to see these people marching doswn the street with Mexican flags as if they are totally unwilling to give up anything for this great country--as if they want a huge Mexiamericana. I know that that's unfare to them, but that's mhy kneejerk reaction. I know well a lot of legal immigrants originating from all over Central and South America, and I approve of that, but these people suffered through the legal systems to come here with respect for the law, and they have respect for the United States, so they make me feel a lot different than illegal aliens. I know I shouldn't base my stand on feelings, but it's sometimes hard to avoid feelings.

where do you get your car washed

We had a big'ol parade out here in Hermiston. 500 strong, or 3.5% of everybody in town.